s***@apu.edu
2020-01-14 18:22:28 UTC
The Indian academians are familiar with the attempts to neuter the Khmer
of their Indic roots.
It seems that there are those who do not think that the Kamboja had the
will, capacity, or capability to move from Northwest India, to Uttar
Pradesh, to Orissa, and other places, in route to the Southeast Asian
peninsula, and to furthermore provide the catalyst for what would become
a nation of significance.
I have often said that I believe that the true base components of what
became the "Khmer" people are actually the confluence of two streams of
"Indian" peoples that arrived in a series of movements over an extended
period of time, and, as noted by many, the Angkor era was merely a
climax, most certainly it was NOT the sum total of the Kamboja/Khmer
existence, and it was definitely not the womb that produced the most
significant elements of the Khmer heritage or cultural traits.
Was there an evolution of a local culture that was distinct in its own
ways, ... yes, but the same can be said for Kamboja and Gandhara, Jammu
and Kashmir, etc., yet there too is to be found significant common roots
sources.
I believe that there is sufficient evidence to support the contention
that the primary founders of what became the Khmer nation-state were
those Kambojans from what is today's Kashmir/Punjab area of India, but I
also acknowledge that there was the opportunity for a concurrent or
subsequent incorporation of peoples from the more southerly and easterly
parts of the Indian continent, from the general areas of what is today
Orissa, Bengal, Andra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu states.
Not surprisingly, the best source of information for support of those
perspectives are in some of the Indology and South Asian forums. On the
Khmer issue, I have seen the North Indian and South Indian researchers
in convergence on the issue of Indic prominence in the establishment and
evolution of the Khmer nation-state. To the degree of exclusion of other
components? ... No, but the most evident, yes.
==================================
Topic: Who were the Indians that went to Cambodia?
Topic started by Sujata on Thu Sep 30 2000
Cambodian culture as we all know had a high dose :-) of Indian culture
until some 700 hundred years ago upon the fall of Angkor, starting from
early B.C. or so. I have learnt that the Indians were the carriers of
this influence.
* From: Lakhjit Singh Fri Dec 29 2000 Some food for thought
1. In the Dhamaaapala's commentary on petavathu, Davarka (i.e Dvarvati)
occurs along Kamboja and according to Dr Rhys David, Dvarka was the
capital of Indian Kamboj country. Dr P. N. Banerjee fixes this Kamboj
country near the modern Sindh-Gujrat. Dr S. K. Aiyanger also locates
this Kamboj country in Sindh-Gujrat-Kathiawar.
2. The AnkuraVathu section of the Petavathu (vesrse 257-258) suggests a
direct path between Davarka (Kathiawar) and Kamboj country.
3. Pali Canon Sasanvamsa (P.T.S) tells us that the son of the king of
Kamboja mentioned as Tamalinda Mahathera went to Sri Lanka for preaching
Buddhism. (Sasanvamsa (P.T.S. p 40)
4. Same Pali Canon Sasanvamsa tells us that king of Kamboj, Srihamsya
from Kamboja country sailed to Sri Lanka and conquered the city Ratna
Pura. (Sasanvamsa (P.T.S. p 100)
5. In at least five of Sri Lankan rock inscriptions, we find mention of
some Kamboja people as an ethnic group in ancient Sri lanka. The period
is deemed to be 100BC to 100 AD according to researchers.
6. Dr Dharam Dasa connects these above mentioned Kaboja/Kamboja people
with the Kambojas of Kashmir (ref. People of the Lion...The Sinhala
Identity and Ideaology in History and Philosophy).
7. Pali Chronicles composed in Chiangmai makes a mention of
"Kambojaraja" from Ligor who defeated the kings of Lopburi and Loo
respectively and established himself as king of Lovo (Lopburi).
8. Modified names from the ancient term Kamboja like Kambu, Kamboi,
Kambhe (a people), Cambey are still found in India's Gujarat state to
this day.
9. Ancient Kambojas have been described by Kautalya as Kasatrya shreni
living by trade, agriculture and by "wielding weapons."
These are indicators that the ancient Kamboja people were living on the
North or Western region of ancient India. I am reproducing this
information from writings of some of the most eminent authorities in the
world in the field of Indology.
Numerous eminent historians write that a section of people from this
Indian Kamboja country went to the Mekong Valley, along with trading
classes and had colonized it. (The Kambojas have been described by
Kautalya as traders, and warriors (Kasatryas) at the same time. Later,
these Kamboja colonies grew in political power and founded the Chenla
and later Kambuja kingdoms.
One prominent school of scholars holds that it was these Indian Kamboja
people who gave their name to what is now called Cambodia.
* From: Mani M. Manivannan
"Since ancient
times, crossing the sea was supposedly a taboo from a Hindu point of
view. Brahmans strongly discouraged this. And if you did not follow
Brahmans, you would earn Mlechcha status for you and your families, a
terrible thought for the Southern Indians indeed!" We all know that the
Southern (Dravidian) Hindu Brahmans had undoubtedly been very
conservative and strictest kind of Brahmans. They must have strictly
discouraged the Southerners to go across sea.
The only problem with this is that Tamils (South India) had been trading
with the Romans long before the Christian era, when the Aryan tribes had
this taboo. They also controlled much of the trade with South East Asia
up to and
under the great Cholas of the 12th century, they controlled vast
territories of Sri Vijya empire (that included Java and Kedah) with
their formidable navies.
The Pallavas of south also had a fine navy and had trading relationships
with the far east. It was from Pallava Kanci that the founder of Zen
buddhism, himself a Brahmin, started out on his mission to China. The
taboo against crossing the seas never took root in Tamilnadu and the
Tamil merchants communities have a long and distinguished record of
overseas trade.
* From: Lakhjit Singh
There is yet no firm origin for word 'Khmer' from inscriptions or other
Cambodian sources. In the neighboring Thai speaking Khmer population,
the Mon-Khmer population are called Khmus which litrally means men. Some
scholars argue that word Khmer evolved from the term Sanskrit term
Kambuja or Kamboja itself.
However, some others like Dr B. R. Chatterjee state that the word Khmer
may have been evolved from the Kamar sub-caste of the North Indian
Kambojas whose ancestors are said to have settled in Farther India
(Southeast Asia) in ancient times. Importantly, some Kambojas of North
India still carry this tradition with them.
This has also been referred to by famed G. Coedes in his Indianized
States Text.
"The Kambujas (including
Shakas & Kushnas), to all probability, seem to have come to Farther
India from Northern India. The most probable era of migration could be
4th century A.D. There are several instances to substantiate this fact.
The popular story of Kambhu-Mera marriage is not based on any scientific
reasoning, but is steeped in long-standing tradition. It is based on
ancient myth which prevailed even before the start of AD according to
scholars. According to this myth, Kambuja is derived from Kambu+Ja = the
descendents of Swaymbhava Kambu ... a union of Kambhu and the Apsara,
Mera; And therefore, some scholars say that the word Khmer comes from a
variation of the combination of Kambhu + Mera; Kam+mer = Kamer!
However, if the Cambodian traders /colonists were from South
(Dravid/Tamil) India, it would be but natural that they could have named
(or sanskritized) Mekong Valley after Chola, Pandya, Pallava, Kanchi,
Klinga or after some other Tamil/Dravid names.
During Buddhist times, Kamboja Kingdom was one of the 16 great kingdoms
of Aryan India. It was located in the extreme north...according to some
scholars extending from east Afghanistan to SE Kashmir (Dr Ray
Chaudhury, Dr
R. C. Majumdar, Dr A. D. Pusalkar, Dr Fauja Singh, Dr L. M. Joshi etc)
and by others, it was located in the Pamir Badakshan area (Dr J.
Vidyalankar, Dr Motichander, Dr Suniti Kumar, Dr V. D. Agarwal, Dr
Lassen, etc.).
K. D. Sethna , Dr Jya Lal, as well as some other modern historians have
proved the possible existence of two Kambojas in North India during the
early times ... (1) Kamboja, and (2) Parama Kamboja.
Several Sanskrit texts point towards this fact ... i.e.
MBH II.27.23 "Darda Saha Kamboja".
MBH II.27.25 "Lohan ParamaKamboja Rsikan Uttaran api"
Thus we see Kamboja and Parama Kamboja lands are mentioned
simultaneously in one breath in the same shloka of MBH.
Rajtrangini of Kalhana and Raghuvamsa of Kalidass also point towards
this historical fact. The Kamboja was located in an area that extended
from south of Kashmir, up to near Afghanistan, while Parama Kamboja was
located in Pamir-Badakshan area at the Oxus river, a little further to
the north in the extreme East Hindu Kush.
The list of kingdoms per the Anguttara Nakaya mentions Kamboja and
Gandhara among 16 great kingdoms of ancient India like Kashi, Kosala,
Kuru, Panchala, Anga, Magadha, Sursena, Avanti etc.
Regarding the so-called Indian Invasion theory ... I have never stated
that the Kambojas or any other people from India had invaded Farther
India and forcibly colonized it. It never happened like that.
Rather, the starting point was the trade and commerce factor. Kambojas
have traditionally been traders, agriculturist and warriors since the
Vedic age. They are described as traders and warriors at the same time
in Kautalya Arathshastera. e.g.
"Kamboja-Saurashtra Kashatrya-Shrenyadhyo-vartashasteropjiven" (Kautaly
Arathshaster 11/1/4)
This means: Kambojas and Saurashtra Kasatryas (Alliances of Warriors)
live by trade, agriculture and by wielding weapons.
So, evidence that the Kamboja people were traders and warriors at the
same time. This factor must have proved them especially versatile while
trading and colonizing in Far India. It was similar to the beginning of
the European colonization of East India of 18/19th centuries AD.
Starting factor was surely trade, but the later on, with growth, the
political factors must have become a factor.
Saka Parda Pahlva China Kirata Darda Khash: (Manu Smriti X-43-44).
In reference to above shlokas of Manusmriti, Prof Sudarshan Bhandari
"................The Sakas were portrayed as a white skinned tribe
according to legend of the contest between Vashista and Vishwamitra of
epics. According to Manusmriti, X, 43-44, they, along with Paundarkaas,
Ordas (who were called Andhras in Indian History), Dravidas, Kambojas
(the Vermas who later rule in Cambodia), yavanas, Pardas, pahlvas 9the
Verma kings of Mammalapuram), China Chin rulers of China?), Kiratas (the
rulers of Nepal Mountains), Dardas and Khasa as Vartya Kashetryas
(Kalluka's comments). .........."
Here we see that Professor Tiwari also accepts that the Verma kings of
Cambodia were the ancient Kambojas (from Northern India) as mentioned in
our numerous Sanskrit texts including Manusmriti, Mahabharata, Ramayana,
Kautalya, Puranas, Ashatadhaye etc.
==================================
* From: Lakhjit Singh
In response to Linga's posting, again I would rather like to quote the
distinguished French professor, George Coedes, an authority on Kamboja
culture and historian who rightly commented on the claims of Indian
"Whence came the Indians who
emigrated to Farther India, and where did they embark from? Much
research has been done on this subject. Undoubtedly, those who are most
concerned and involved in this research, the Indian historians, have not
always approached it with the desired objectivity: if these historians
were natives of Madras, they attributed the honor of having colonized
'Greater India' to the Tamils: if they were from Calcuta, they
attributed it to the Bengalese......"
Eventually, this distinguished researcher, who has spent 50 long years
arduously studying and deciphering archaeological records, chronicles
and epigraphics of Kambodian kings, was finally inclined to relate the
Kambodian kings of Indo China to the Kambojas from the Northern-West
frontiers regions of India (Ref: Indianized States of South-East 1964,
page 47.
This distinguished researcher has also quoted from: 'A current Tradition
among the Kambojas of North-India relating to the Khmers of Cambodia'
AA, XXIV (1961), Page 253 by Dr B. R. Chatterjee.
Also ref to 'The Kamboja People and the Country' 1979 by Dr. J. L.
Kamboj)
The facts about the origin of Indianization in Cambodia which I have
included in my previous posting are not mine. They are from several very
eminent researchers and scholars on Indology as well as on 'Greater
India' history. The dust on the Cambodia issue has not settled down yet.
However, as we have seen, after spending 50 years in research on
Cambodian culture and history, G. Coedes himself was finally inclined to
connect the Kambojas of North-West India with the ancient Cambodian
Indianization ..... especially numerous in the second Indianization of
Cambodia. In the so-called second Indianization of Indo China, we find
Kushans, Sakas and Kambojas pouring into Mekong Valley during 4/5th
century AD in the wake of Gupta/Sassanian expansionism in north India.
**** "As a result of Kabol valley occupation by Sassanian King
Shahpuhra II, and the rise of Gupta power and the defeat of Kushans of
North-West India at the hands of Samuder Gupta around 4th century AD, an
exodus of the Kushan, Kamboja and Saka people occurred towards the
Mekong Basin of South-East Asia. These tribes soon established
themselves in this region and later one of their chiefs rose to power,
and usurped Funan kingdom and laid the foundations of Kamboj empire".
(Ref: India and the world 1964 p 71, 155 by Dr. Buddha Parkash)
Both Dravidians (South India) and the North Indian Aryans originally
come from same group of human race. And the 'skin color' is only a
function of the climatic conditions & the geographical locales in which
one lives.
Not all Northerners are 'fair colored'. You can see color varying from
fair to dark complexions for the Northies as well. The ones in the
extreme north are fair colored, but the more you move towards the south,
the more deep-colored you become ... it does not matter whether you are
an Aryan or Dravidian or anyone else. Thus the skin color argument is
fallacious argument.
The migration of northern Aryans ... and the Kambojas, Sakas and Kushans
etc. to Indo-China, was in no way a mass one-time migration. Their
population never replaced the original population. Rather, they formed a
portion of it and supplemented it. The migration groups at times
included members of the royal house, the soldiers, and to some extent
the Brahman and Srahman missionaries and formed the elite layer of the
Khmers (G. Coedes).
This initially comparatively small class of Northern Aryan immigrants
inter-marry, generation after generation into the local population.
Slowly and steadily, this admixing process continued unabated over
centuries. End result ..... the ethnicity of minority groups was lost in
what became the majority Khmer ethnicity. The genetics of this now
majority Khmer population dominated with a modification due to Aryan
Indians. Their common descendents had assumed all the hues and features
of those with whom they had admixed.
Remember that this Khmer/Aryan blood mixing process was
spread
over much more than 1500 years!!!
Undoubtedly, a Dravidian, Vedda and Negreto substratum did exist in Indo
China soil prior to the arrival of what came to be known as the 'Khmers'
on the
Cambodian scene. (G. Coedes). This substratum was submerged in the later
waves of a Khmer population from Southern Burma. The Melanesian and
Dravidian blood admixture which Linga is referring to is partly due to
this admixture and partly a mixture due to the later-time Dravidian
traders and commercing people coming from contiguous South India to SE
Asia in the succeeding several centuries.
As has been stated, since ancient times, crossing the sea was supposedly
a taboo from the Hindu point of view. Brahmans strongly discouraged
this. And if you did not follow Brahmans, you would earn Mlechcha status
for you and your families, a terrible thought for the Southern Indians
indeed!
We all know that the Southern (Dravidian) Hindu Brahmans had undoubtedly
been very conservative and the strictest kind of Brahmans. They must
have strictly discouraged the Southerners to go across sea.
On the other hand, we also know that the
Northern Brahmans and
Kashatryas were very less orthodox. Therefore, it is quite logical and
natural that the Kashatryas princes, soldiers, and the priestly class
(Brahmans/Srahmans) who followed the traders to Far India (Cambodia) and
founded the Kamboja/Kambuja empire in the olden days, were originally
the Kambojas, Sakas and Kushans from Northern India.
Angkor Vat is the product of 13th century Cambodian culture and
religion. By that time, there had occurred vast changes in the
political, religious, and cultural history of Cambodia, Java, Chams and
Sumatra. There was extensive cultural, commercial and religious
intercourse between the SE Asians, including Cambodians on the one hand,
and the South Indians and Sri Lankans of the mediaval era on the other.
Saivism, Theravada Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism all played their roles
well at different phases of Cambodian history.
It is only natural that the model of Angkor-Vat Temple should
unmistakeably have the artistic and religious flavour and overtones from
its comparatively neighbouring South Indian Hindus. The Chola Kings of
the 11/12 centuries had extensive cultural and political relations with
the Kambuja/Kamboja empire. From Bengalese history, we learn that the
Bengalese Pala Kamboj kings were Vedic Hindus.
Also we have evidence from Chidamdram Inscriptions (12th c AD Kamboja
King Deva Pala of North Bengal vs Rajinder Chola) that the Pala Kamboja
kings of North Bengal also had very good and cordial relationship with
Chola Kings. So nothing surprising here.
Since ancient times, the Indian Kambojas had
been very much Vedic
Hindus, though many also being staunch Buddhists. But again, the Angkor
Vat factor goes only to explain the 'end result', and NOT the ancient
'origin' of the Kambodian Indianization.
Another intersting point: Many Kambojas, Kushans and Sakas of the
Northern India had adopted Buddhism in large numbers during Asoka as
well as later two/three centuries. From Brahmanical point of view, they
became Mlechchas' and were thus exempt from the Brahmanical social
strictures applying to those crossing the sea. Also Buddhism was a
revolutionary religion based on equality with no caste barriers. The
stigma of earning Mlechcha status from Buddhist Sramans was never an
issue for Buddhist north Indians.
Thus the Kamboja, Saka and Kushan Kasatryas and their soldiers, along
with Brahmanas and Sramanas from North India comfortably went abroad to
Indo-China peninsula unburdened by the above said religious and social
barriers.
==================================
* From: Raveen
Question: "Why did the ancient Khmer Kings choose to
designate their kingdom and land adoption as KAMBUJA OR KAMBOJA after
the 'tribal name' of the Kambuja or Kamboja Aryan people from the
north-west region of ancient India? Why didn't they choose something
like a Dravidian name, if they were Dravidians? Can you give me a
scientific explanation for it? I am very curious to know about it?"
Reply: Have you heard about
Sanskritization? When South East Asia was colonized by Indian merchant
groups followed by Priests and Cheifs, local names were Sanskritized
just like in peninsular India. Many places in South East Asia have
cities, places and entire kingdoms named after places in India. For
example Madura in Indonesia, Ayothya In Thailand, Mount Meru in Cambodia
and the examples are numerous.
The commonly accepted derivation of Kamboja for - Cambodians, is that it
was the Sankritized version of a local name for the Khmer.
Except in the case of Sri Lanka and a couple of cases in the Indies, no
Indian tribe or clan had ever used military force outside India.
The colonization was largely based on culture, and passive acceptance of
it by the locals, it was never "invasive."
==================================
==================================
From: Your-Indian-Friend
A GOOD-BYE POSTING
To all my dear Indian friends Again, I am not a historian at all. I am
your very ordinary Indian brother, putting forth information from
various schools and points of view for the interest of all of you
readers and intellectuals. It is not my intent to forcibly convert to
the views of this school, which is distinct from Tamil and Bengalese
schools of views on Far India.
To my learned friend/brother Raveen with regards: I have never been a
visitor to the Indian Civilization discussion group, etc., you have
mentioned. And believe me, we are meeting here for the first time. But a
real nice meeting indeed!
To my brother/friend Hemant, who is surely also a very learned person, I
extend my heartiest thanks if he found some useful information from my
postings regarding the Khmers and Kambodian Architecture vs Dravidian
Architecture of south India etc.
HERE IS THE LAST INSTALLMENT FROM MY SIDE, FOR ALL OF YOU TO PONDER OVER
AND DO FURTHER STUDIES IF YOU CAN!
TRADITIONAL ORIGIN OF KAMBUJA/KHMER - TERMS ACCORDING TO KAMBODIAN
INSCRIPTIONS, etc.
(i)As per Kang Tai and Chu ying, Chinese missionaries of 3rd century AD
who attended the courts of Funanese Hindu kings (Pelliot "Le Founan" p
303, Indianized States G. Coedes p37).
Kanudynia (Huntieu) + Nagi Soma --------------------- Origin of Kings of
Funan. (line of Solar kings)
(ii) Per Cambodian Dynastic legend preserved in 9th century inscription,
(Louis Finot, Sylvain. Levi)
Svayambhuva Kambu +Mera nymph ----------------- Origin of Kings of
Kambuja
According to Coedes and others scholars, this mythical union of
Svayambhu Kambu and nymph Mera was coined to show the origin of the name
'Khmer". This shows that Kamboja was not Sanskritized from 'Khmer' but
'Khmer' was shown as originated from Kamboj through this interesting
mythical fusion/union of Kambu (Kambuja/Kamboja) and a local name Mera.
Thus the word Kambuj appeared for the first time in record in the 9th
century Cambodian inscriptions. We do not either find any record of name
Khmer in the written record or inscriptions of Kambodia. We know that
the southern Indians are, and have been more dedicated Saivites than the
Northern Indians. The Original Kambodians kings were also followers of
Saivism.
Does this show that the original Brahmans must have come from Southern
India (or both from North and Southern India)?
It seems to be a pure speculation to say that the Brahmans came from
North alone and they, therefore, coined Cambodians local names after
Northern Indian place/country names. It is not sustainable argument to
my opinion. Granted that the Brahmans only came from North India, why
should they choose comparatively a very less important name Kamboja from
North (which was also definitely less Aryans than the Madhyadesha
kingdoms ) leaving very famed old Aryans kingdom names like Kuru,
Panchal, Kosal, Chedi, Vats, Magadh, Avanti, Kling, Gandhar, Madra,
Matasya, Assaka, Anga etc.
Moreover, during this phase of Indian history, Kambojas, including some
other northern and southern tribes were delegated to the status of
Degraded Kasatryas or Mlechchas, because many of them had became
followers of non-brahmanical way of life. Their land 'Kamboja' also
started to be called the land of Mlechchas.
Question arises as to why the North Brahmans should like to name
Cambodia after the name of Mlechcha Kamboja..... the land of the
so-called un-Arya or unbrahmanical Kasatryas?
Buddhist Canons tell us that in the land of
Kambojas, there were
only two classes of people --- Arya and Dasa. A Dasa can become Arya and
vice versa. E.g "Yona kambojesu dveva vanna, Ayyo C'eva Dasoca"
(Majjihma Nakaya II, 149). Thus, in Kamboja country, the Brahman,
Ksatrya and Vaisha people coexisted, not in a classified society like
their neighboring Madhyadeshi Aryans.
Kamboja lands, to all intents and purposes, became a classless set-up
during the 3/2 centuries BC. (Probably the Kambojas picked up some
influence of neighboring (Yona) Greek people during this time and had
adopted aspects of their social order of classless society. This is
further verified from Panini's Ganapatha on Panini's rule II.1.72, which
"Kamboja-mundah-yavana-mundah ... both observing similar
head-dressing)."
The Kambojas were Brahminas, Kasatryas and Vaishas, - all at at the same
time and there was unrestricted movement from one occupation /profession
to another among these Aryan people of NW India.
"Kamboja-Saurashtra Ksatrya shrenyadhyo-varta-shastr-opjivin" (Kautalya
arath shaster 11/1/4).
This above also shows that people of Kambojas
could practice Brahmanism, Kasatryhood and Vaishism at will. A trader
could perform the duties of Kasatrya and Brahman if need be. Thus for
trade and colonization, polticization, and Sanskritization, all
functions could have originally been taken care of by the same trading
peoples in the Mekong Valley.
This attribute and characteristic of the Kambojan society must have
helped them when they first established themselves in the far lands of
SE Indo-china.
Ancient Kamboja Country as a famous Trade Center: There is evidence
preserved in Buddhist Canons and the modern identification of the
ancient land of Kamboja, that show that the land of Kamboja undoubtedly
was a commercial hub .... a trade center. Several trade routes
Kamboja-Kapisi-Pushkravati-Takshila-Sindu-Sauvir-Dravati to the west)
Kamboja-Pushkravati-Sakali-Mathura-Kausambi-Varanasi-Pataliputra-tamralipiti
(to east)
Kamboja-Karakorum-Kinnara-Garwal-Kamrup another route to east)
Kamboja-Kashgar-Yarkandh-Khotan-Sinkiang-Nan.Chao-Tonkin Chiang Kien.
Chinese Envoy to Bactria (127 BC) leaves us evidence of Bamboos and
textiles from SW China - sold in local markets of Afghanistan. On his
enquiry, he learnt that these goods were brought to East India through
Yunnan, Burma -Tamralipti from which they then came all the way to North
India-Afghanistan.
Besides, there was a land trade route from Tamralipiti to Manipur -
Assam - Burma - Nanchao - Tonkin which some traders were also following
in times of need.
Thus there was an extensive trade relationship between India -
Afghanistan land and the South China lands existing very much prior to
Christian era. And we have already seen demonstrated that the ancient
Kambojas people were certainly very good traders and warriors, by
Kautalya and some other Sanskrit sources like MBH. Even in the west
China, the Silk trade between Sinkinag/China and rest of NW India passed
through the Param Kamboja country (Pamir/Badakshan).
We have a couple of documented routes between Kamboj/Balkh and Sinkiang
province of China e.g
Kamboj-Taskant-Aqsu-Qurghan-Sinkiang
Kamboja-Kashgar-Yarkandh-Khotan-Sinkiang
From Kamboj to Dvaravati (Kathiawar), a direct route is also attested by
Ankuravatthu section of the Petavatthu (257-258).
Kambojans were constantly in touch with Dvaravati (Kathiawar) and from
there they regularly sailed to Sri Lanka for trade via the sea. No
doubt, we find the proof of this also from the Sinhalese Rock
inscriptions, five of which mention among the local tribes the ethnic
Kaboja/Kamboja people.
Eminent Sri Lankan and Indian historians connect these Kaboja/Kamboja
people with the Kamboja people of North India - Gandhara Group, the same
(Yona-kamboja-Gandharam...ref: Asoka Edict V, for example).
There are hints contained in the Pali Canons of Sri Lanka (early
centuries AD) that the people of Kambojas from North India were
commercially, culturally and politically in touch with each other.
From Pali Canons, we learn that King of Kamboja's son named Tamalinda
Mahathera was a celebrated Buddhist preacher who preached Theravada in
Sri Lanka (Sasanvamsa (P.T.S) p 40).
Also we learn that a KambojaRaja named Srihmsya came from Kamboja
country (North India) and conquored Ratana Pura City/province of Sri
Lanka. (op Cit p100).
All these pointers shows that Kambojan traders from North India were
also expert seafarers, and were also very familiar with Sri Lankan land
as early as c 200 BC.
From the above we also can conclude that commercial, religious, cultural
and political relationships existed between these two lands in time
phase between 300BC-200AD.
It is not too difficult to conceive that after establishing a commercial
and political presence in Sri lanka, these Kambojan traders then could
have started visiting SE Indochina lands to further develop/expand their
trade.
Some other food for thought for my esteemed and educated friends on this
(1) Kambojan presence in Ayudhya is recognized since the later Vedic
period of ancient Indian history. The Kambojas along with Haiya
Kasatryas had dethroned King Bahu of Ayudhya and usurped Ayudhya ruled
over it for well over 30 years. ( Harivamsa Purana, Vayu Purana and
Vishnu Purana).
(2) The Kambojan presence is also recognized in the Mathura area since
Epic era because according to Mahabharata, the Kambojas are said to have
conquered Mathura and ruled over it for indefinite time (MBH 12/102/5).
The Kamboja presence in Mathura is also recognized in the Mathura Lion
Capital inscriptions of c 1 A.D.
(3) During 200 B.C., the Kambojas from their original Kamboja lands from
North India - Afghanistan started further expanding into the Punjab,
Sindh, Sauvir, Malva and Uttar Pradesh area. Also, one other section
went to Bihar, Bengal and Orissa and permanently settled there. (Vishal
Kambo page 16 by Dr Jya Lal).
(4) Kambojas find mention in Ashoka's Sirnar or Sirinagar in Junagard
Gujrat/Kathiawar, Kalsi in Dehradun and Dhauli in Bhubhneshwar in Orissa
also, besides in Kandhar, Lamghan in East Afghanistan and Shahbazgarhi
in Northwest Frontier Pakistan areas.
Thus, from the above we see that the Kambojas
presence is also
recognized in Gujrat/Kathiawar and Bhubneshwara/Orissa as early as
Ashoka's times - 300 B.C. Even from Braht Samhita of Vrahamihira, we
find footprints of Kambojas somewhere near the Gujrat area.
(5) According to the Brahman Purana (4th century A.D.) the presence of
Kambojas is recognized in Assam and Tamaralipti (Tamaluk) region of
Bengal also. Several historians find the foot prints of Kamboja people
passing in the Tibet area or its borderlands. According to Nepali
traditions, the Kambojadesha name applies to some settlers in Tibet
(Foucher..Iconographie Buddhique' p 134, also ref Charles Eliot, Dr
Ghokhale). V. A. Smith also locates Kambojas in Tibet and in Hindu Kush
mountains.
(6) The Burmese and Tibetean chronicles and lores make mention of a
country called Kampchih or Kampotes located somewhere in-between Assam
and Burma. This, to all probability is the Kamboja settlement as
referred to in the Brahman Purana pointed above.
According to eminent Scholars (Dr P. C. Baghchi, R.C. Majumdar, A.D.
Pusalkar etc.) this Kamboj country was distinct from the
Yona-Kamboja-Gandhara group of North India. Probably, this was a section
of the eastern branch of Pamirian Kambojan people who later moved
towards Assam and had colonized this region which later became known as
another 'Kamboja' country, around 3/4 century AD.
It could be possible to think also that some Kambojas from this land had
also later moved further onwards towards Mekong Valley in the 4/5 c AD
and established themselves in that land.
(6) We also find mention of a certain Kambojaraja in the Chindambram
Inscription where this Kambojaraja is said to have made a precious
present to Rajendra Chola. He was a good friend of Rajendra Chola and is
said to have sought his military help against the non-Kamboj Bengalese
Pala kings.
The information I have put up above shows that there is documentary
proof of a concentrations of Kamboja people in several Eastern Indian
areas since before the start of AD era. (Assam, Tibetean borderlands,
Tamarlipiti in Bengal, and Bhubneshwera in Orissa etc).
Presence of ancient Kambojas is also recognized in Kathiawar/Gujarat and
is also proved by Girinar Inscriptions of Ashoka and some other
historical records.
There has been ancient commercial sea traffic recognized between the
Saurashtra region and Sri Lanka. Further, the presence of Kambojas is
documentarily recognized in Sri Lanka from its inscriptions and Pali
Canons as stated in above. (200BC-200AD). And I also believe, the
Sri-Lankans, like their Tamils brethren, have been in touch with these
Indo-Chinese lands of Far India since before the start of AD era.
I am leaving this information for my friends to ponder over. The only
purpose of my postings on this thread was to provide some information
for you very educated and intellectual readers of this site, from a
third school view point, (which has hitherto been neglected in the
studies of Farther India by Tamils and Bengalese historians for obvious
reasons) ... and thereby set up the process of thinking and
re-evaluation. My respected brother Raveen calls me as belonging to
a class of 'out-of-mainstream' historians. It is very easy to move with
the crowd, but it is real challenging to move on the untrodden paths.
It is a very difficult task and needs guts indeed.
==================================
JY: The above is just a small fraction of the material that is becoming
more available on the India-Kamboja-Khmer connection.
It is obvious that the Kambojas not only were capable of extensive
mobility, they were actively mobile even back into the pre-Christian
era.
South Indian researcher on this subject, K.D. Thirunavukkarasu, has
stated his suspicions that there are yet more sources of documentary
evidence of the Indian (North and South) presence in Southeast Asia that
will confirm the antiquity of that contact. He has expressed concern
about records in some of the Southeast Asian countries, most notably
Thailand, and he has noted that the Thai have subjected ancient texts to
revision and what are called "redactions."
No doubt, as time goes by, more and more of these texts and other forms
of evidence are either destroyed, defaced, or perpetually sequestered.
Those whose objective is to "bleach" the Indic element out of the
history of Southeast Asia, ... especially out of the Khmer history, ...
they will have succeeded in erasing a substantial source of refence on
the heritage and cultural linkage between a people, ... the Khmer, and
their Indian ancestry.
If the "bleachers" succeed in their mission, I will feel sympathy for
the Khmer, because they will have been robbed of their history ... but I
will pity the "bleachers" even more, because their "victory" will not be
one worthy of praise, but it will be one in the same vein as Hitler,
Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, ... the only difference being that in this
case, no blood will be spilled, ... only ink, yet a people will vanish
from the earth.
Jai Kambudesa
Jai Hind
Jim
of their Indic roots.
It seems that there are those who do not think that the Kamboja had the
will, capacity, or capability to move from Northwest India, to Uttar
Pradesh, to Orissa, and other places, in route to the Southeast Asian
peninsula, and to furthermore provide the catalyst for what would become
a nation of significance.
I have often said that I believe that the true base components of what
became the "Khmer" people are actually the confluence of two streams of
"Indian" peoples that arrived in a series of movements over an extended
period of time, and, as noted by many, the Angkor era was merely a
climax, most certainly it was NOT the sum total of the Kamboja/Khmer
existence, and it was definitely not the womb that produced the most
significant elements of the Khmer heritage or cultural traits.
Was there an evolution of a local culture that was distinct in its own
ways, ... yes, but the same can be said for Kamboja and Gandhara, Jammu
and Kashmir, etc., yet there too is to be found significant common roots
sources.
I believe that there is sufficient evidence to support the contention
that the primary founders of what became the Khmer nation-state were
those Kambojans from what is today's Kashmir/Punjab area of India, but I
also acknowledge that there was the opportunity for a concurrent or
subsequent incorporation of peoples from the more southerly and easterly
parts of the Indian continent, from the general areas of what is today
Orissa, Bengal, Andra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu states.
Not surprisingly, the best source of information for support of those
perspectives are in some of the Indology and South Asian forums. On the
Khmer issue, I have seen the North Indian and South Indian researchers
in convergence on the issue of Indic prominence in the establishment and
evolution of the Khmer nation-state. To the degree of exclusion of other
components? ... No, but the most evident, yes.
==================================
Topic: Who were the Indians that went to Cambodia?
Topic started by Sujata on Thu Sep 30 2000
Cambodian culture as we all know had a high dose :-) of Indian culture
until some 700 hundred years ago upon the fall of Angkor, starting from
early B.C. or so. I have learnt that the Indians were the carriers of
this influence.
* From: Lakhjit Singh Fri Dec 29 2000 Some food for thought
1. In the Dhamaaapala's commentary on petavathu, Davarka (i.e Dvarvati)
occurs along Kamboja and according to Dr Rhys David, Dvarka was the
capital of Indian Kamboj country. Dr P. N. Banerjee fixes this Kamboj
country near the modern Sindh-Gujrat. Dr S. K. Aiyanger also locates
this Kamboj country in Sindh-Gujrat-Kathiawar.
2. The AnkuraVathu section of the Petavathu (vesrse 257-258) suggests a
direct path between Davarka (Kathiawar) and Kamboj country.
3. Pali Canon Sasanvamsa (P.T.S) tells us that the son of the king of
Kamboja mentioned as Tamalinda Mahathera went to Sri Lanka for preaching
Buddhism. (Sasanvamsa (P.T.S. p 40)
4. Same Pali Canon Sasanvamsa tells us that king of Kamboj, Srihamsya
from Kamboja country sailed to Sri Lanka and conquered the city Ratna
Pura. (Sasanvamsa (P.T.S. p 100)
5. In at least five of Sri Lankan rock inscriptions, we find mention of
some Kamboja people as an ethnic group in ancient Sri lanka. The period
is deemed to be 100BC to 100 AD according to researchers.
6. Dr Dharam Dasa connects these above mentioned Kaboja/Kamboja people
with the Kambojas of Kashmir (ref. People of the Lion...The Sinhala
Identity and Ideaology in History and Philosophy).
7. Pali Chronicles composed in Chiangmai makes a mention of
"Kambojaraja" from Ligor who defeated the kings of Lopburi and Loo
respectively and established himself as king of Lovo (Lopburi).
8. Modified names from the ancient term Kamboja like Kambu, Kamboi,
Kambhe (a people), Cambey are still found in India's Gujarat state to
this day.
9. Ancient Kambojas have been described by Kautalya as Kasatrya shreni
living by trade, agriculture and by "wielding weapons."
These are indicators that the ancient Kamboja people were living on the
North or Western region of ancient India. I am reproducing this
information from writings of some of the most eminent authorities in the
world in the field of Indology.
Numerous eminent historians write that a section of people from this
Indian Kamboja country went to the Mekong Valley, along with trading
classes and had colonized it. (The Kambojas have been described by
Kautalya as traders, and warriors (Kasatryas) at the same time. Later,
these Kamboja colonies grew in political power and founded the Chenla
and later Kambuja kingdoms.
One prominent school of scholars holds that it was these Indian Kamboja
people who gave their name to what is now called Cambodia.
* From: Mani M. Manivannan
"Since ancient
times, crossing the sea was supposedly a taboo from a Hindu point of
view. Brahmans strongly discouraged this. And if you did not follow
Brahmans, you would earn Mlechcha status for you and your families, a
terrible thought for the Southern Indians indeed!" We all know that the
Southern (Dravidian) Hindu Brahmans had undoubtedly been very
conservative and strictest kind of Brahmans. They must have strictly
discouraged the Southerners to go across sea.
The only problem with this is that Tamils (South India) had been trading
with the Romans long before the Christian era, when the Aryan tribes had
this taboo. They also controlled much of the trade with South East Asia
up to and
under the great Cholas of the 12th century, they controlled vast
territories of Sri Vijya empire (that included Java and Kedah) with
their formidable navies.
The Pallavas of south also had a fine navy and had trading relationships
with the far east. It was from Pallava Kanci that the founder of Zen
buddhism, himself a Brahmin, started out on his mission to China. The
taboo against crossing the seas never took root in Tamilnadu and the
Tamil merchants communities have a long and distinguished record of
overseas trade.
* From: Lakhjit Singh
There is yet no firm origin for word 'Khmer' from inscriptions or other
Cambodian sources. In the neighboring Thai speaking Khmer population,
the Mon-Khmer population are called Khmus which litrally means men. Some
scholars argue that word Khmer evolved from the term Sanskrit term
Kambuja or Kamboja itself.
However, some others like Dr B. R. Chatterjee state that the word Khmer
may have been evolved from the Kamar sub-caste of the North Indian
Kambojas whose ancestors are said to have settled in Farther India
(Southeast Asia) in ancient times. Importantly, some Kambojas of North
India still carry this tradition with them.
This has also been referred to by famed G. Coedes in his Indianized
States Text.
"The Kambujas (including
Shakas & Kushnas), to all probability, seem to have come to Farther
India from Northern India. The most probable era of migration could be
4th century A.D. There are several instances to substantiate this fact.
The popular story of Kambhu-Mera marriage is not based on any scientific
reasoning, but is steeped in long-standing tradition. It is based on
ancient myth which prevailed even before the start of AD according to
scholars. According to this myth, Kambuja is derived from Kambu+Ja = the
descendents of Swaymbhava Kambu ... a union of Kambhu and the Apsara,
Mera; And therefore, some scholars say that the word Khmer comes from a
variation of the combination of Kambhu + Mera; Kam+mer = Kamer!
However, if the Cambodian traders /colonists were from South
(Dravid/Tamil) India, it would be but natural that they could have named
(or sanskritized) Mekong Valley after Chola, Pandya, Pallava, Kanchi,
Klinga or after some other Tamil/Dravid names.
During Buddhist times, Kamboja Kingdom was one of the 16 great kingdoms
of Aryan India. It was located in the extreme north...according to some
scholars extending from east Afghanistan to SE Kashmir (Dr Ray
Chaudhury, Dr
R. C. Majumdar, Dr A. D. Pusalkar, Dr Fauja Singh, Dr L. M. Joshi etc)
and by others, it was located in the Pamir Badakshan area (Dr J.
Vidyalankar, Dr Motichander, Dr Suniti Kumar, Dr V. D. Agarwal, Dr
Lassen, etc.).
K. D. Sethna , Dr Jya Lal, as well as some other modern historians have
proved the possible existence of two Kambojas in North India during the
early times ... (1) Kamboja, and (2) Parama Kamboja.
Several Sanskrit texts point towards this fact ... i.e.
MBH II.27.23 "Darda Saha Kamboja".
MBH II.27.25 "Lohan ParamaKamboja Rsikan Uttaran api"
Thus we see Kamboja and Parama Kamboja lands are mentioned
simultaneously in one breath in the same shloka of MBH.
Rajtrangini of Kalhana and Raghuvamsa of Kalidass also point towards
this historical fact. The Kamboja was located in an area that extended
from south of Kashmir, up to near Afghanistan, while Parama Kamboja was
located in Pamir-Badakshan area at the Oxus river, a little further to
the north in the extreme East Hindu Kush.
The list of kingdoms per the Anguttara Nakaya mentions Kamboja and
Gandhara among 16 great kingdoms of ancient India like Kashi, Kosala,
Kuru, Panchala, Anga, Magadha, Sursena, Avanti etc.
Regarding the so-called Indian Invasion theory ... I have never stated
that the Kambojas or any other people from India had invaded Farther
India and forcibly colonized it. It never happened like that.
Rather, the starting point was the trade and commerce factor. Kambojas
have traditionally been traders, agriculturist and warriors since the
Vedic age. They are described as traders and warriors at the same time
in Kautalya Arathshastera. e.g.
"Kamboja-Saurashtra Kashatrya-Shrenyadhyo-vartashasteropjiven" (Kautaly
Arathshaster 11/1/4)
This means: Kambojas and Saurashtra Kasatryas (Alliances of Warriors)
live by trade, agriculture and by wielding weapons.
So, evidence that the Kamboja people were traders and warriors at the
same time. This factor must have proved them especially versatile while
trading and colonizing in Far India. It was similar to the beginning of
the European colonization of East India of 18/19th centuries AD.
Starting factor was surely trade, but the later on, with growth, the
political factors must have become a factor.
Saka Parda Pahlva China Kirata Darda Khash: (Manu Smriti X-43-44).
In reference to above shlokas of Manusmriti, Prof Sudarshan Bhandari
"................The Sakas were portrayed as a white skinned tribe
according to legend of the contest between Vashista and Vishwamitra of
epics. According to Manusmriti, X, 43-44, they, along with Paundarkaas,
Ordas (who were called Andhras in Indian History), Dravidas, Kambojas
(the Vermas who later rule in Cambodia), yavanas, Pardas, pahlvas 9the
Verma kings of Mammalapuram), China Chin rulers of China?), Kiratas (the
rulers of Nepal Mountains), Dardas and Khasa as Vartya Kashetryas
(Kalluka's comments). .........."
Here we see that Professor Tiwari also accepts that the Verma kings of
Cambodia were the ancient Kambojas (from Northern India) as mentioned in
our numerous Sanskrit texts including Manusmriti, Mahabharata, Ramayana,
Kautalya, Puranas, Ashatadhaye etc.
==================================
* From: Lakhjit Singh
In response to Linga's posting, again I would rather like to quote the
distinguished French professor, George Coedes, an authority on Kamboja
culture and historian who rightly commented on the claims of Indian
"Whence came the Indians who
emigrated to Farther India, and where did they embark from? Much
research has been done on this subject. Undoubtedly, those who are most
concerned and involved in this research, the Indian historians, have not
always approached it with the desired objectivity: if these historians
were natives of Madras, they attributed the honor of having colonized
'Greater India' to the Tamils: if they were from Calcuta, they
attributed it to the Bengalese......"
Eventually, this distinguished researcher, who has spent 50 long years
arduously studying and deciphering archaeological records, chronicles
and epigraphics of Kambodian kings, was finally inclined to relate the
Kambodian kings of Indo China to the Kambojas from the Northern-West
frontiers regions of India (Ref: Indianized States of South-East 1964,
page 47.
This distinguished researcher has also quoted from: 'A current Tradition
among the Kambojas of North-India relating to the Khmers of Cambodia'
AA, XXIV (1961), Page 253 by Dr B. R. Chatterjee.
Also ref to 'The Kamboja People and the Country' 1979 by Dr. J. L.
Kamboj)
The facts about the origin of Indianization in Cambodia which I have
included in my previous posting are not mine. They are from several very
eminent researchers and scholars on Indology as well as on 'Greater
India' history. The dust on the Cambodia issue has not settled down yet.
However, as we have seen, after spending 50 years in research on
Cambodian culture and history, G. Coedes himself was finally inclined to
connect the Kambojas of North-West India with the ancient Cambodian
Indianization ..... especially numerous in the second Indianization of
Cambodia. In the so-called second Indianization of Indo China, we find
Kushans, Sakas and Kambojas pouring into Mekong Valley during 4/5th
century AD in the wake of Gupta/Sassanian expansionism in north India.
**** "As a result of Kabol valley occupation by Sassanian King
Shahpuhra II, and the rise of Gupta power and the defeat of Kushans of
North-West India at the hands of Samuder Gupta around 4th century AD, an
exodus of the Kushan, Kamboja and Saka people occurred towards the
Mekong Basin of South-East Asia. These tribes soon established
themselves in this region and later one of their chiefs rose to power,
and usurped Funan kingdom and laid the foundations of Kamboj empire".
(Ref: India and the world 1964 p 71, 155 by Dr. Buddha Parkash)
Both Dravidians (South India) and the North Indian Aryans originally
come from same group of human race. And the 'skin color' is only a
function of the climatic conditions & the geographical locales in which
one lives.
Not all Northerners are 'fair colored'. You can see color varying from
fair to dark complexions for the Northies as well. The ones in the
extreme north are fair colored, but the more you move towards the south,
the more deep-colored you become ... it does not matter whether you are
an Aryan or Dravidian or anyone else. Thus the skin color argument is
fallacious argument.
The migration of northern Aryans ... and the Kambojas, Sakas and Kushans
etc. to Indo-China, was in no way a mass one-time migration. Their
population never replaced the original population. Rather, they formed a
portion of it and supplemented it. The migration groups at times
included members of the royal house, the soldiers, and to some extent
the Brahman and Srahman missionaries and formed the elite layer of the
Khmers (G. Coedes).
This initially comparatively small class of Northern Aryan immigrants
inter-marry, generation after generation into the local population.
Slowly and steadily, this admixing process continued unabated over
centuries. End result ..... the ethnicity of minority groups was lost in
what became the majority Khmer ethnicity. The genetics of this now
majority Khmer population dominated with a modification due to Aryan
Indians. Their common descendents had assumed all the hues and features
of those with whom they had admixed.
Remember that this Khmer/Aryan blood mixing process was
spread
over much more than 1500 years!!!
Undoubtedly, a Dravidian, Vedda and Negreto substratum did exist in Indo
China soil prior to the arrival of what came to be known as the 'Khmers'
on the
Cambodian scene. (G. Coedes). This substratum was submerged in the later
waves of a Khmer population from Southern Burma. The Melanesian and
Dravidian blood admixture which Linga is referring to is partly due to
this admixture and partly a mixture due to the later-time Dravidian
traders and commercing people coming from contiguous South India to SE
Asia in the succeeding several centuries.
As has been stated, since ancient times, crossing the sea was supposedly
a taboo from the Hindu point of view. Brahmans strongly discouraged
this. And if you did not follow Brahmans, you would earn Mlechcha status
for you and your families, a terrible thought for the Southern Indians
indeed!
We all know that the Southern (Dravidian) Hindu Brahmans had undoubtedly
been very conservative and the strictest kind of Brahmans. They must
have strictly discouraged the Southerners to go across sea.
On the other hand, we also know that the
Northern Brahmans and
Kashatryas were very less orthodox. Therefore, it is quite logical and
natural that the Kashatryas princes, soldiers, and the priestly class
(Brahmans/Srahmans) who followed the traders to Far India (Cambodia) and
founded the Kamboja/Kambuja empire in the olden days, were originally
the Kambojas, Sakas and Kushans from Northern India.
Angkor Vat is the product of 13th century Cambodian culture and
religion. By that time, there had occurred vast changes in the
political, religious, and cultural history of Cambodia, Java, Chams and
Sumatra. There was extensive cultural, commercial and religious
intercourse between the SE Asians, including Cambodians on the one hand,
and the South Indians and Sri Lankans of the mediaval era on the other.
Saivism, Theravada Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism all played their roles
well at different phases of Cambodian history.
It is only natural that the model of Angkor-Vat Temple should
unmistakeably have the artistic and religious flavour and overtones from
its comparatively neighbouring South Indian Hindus. The Chola Kings of
the 11/12 centuries had extensive cultural and political relations with
the Kambuja/Kamboja empire. From Bengalese history, we learn that the
Bengalese Pala Kamboj kings were Vedic Hindus.
Also we have evidence from Chidamdram Inscriptions (12th c AD Kamboja
King Deva Pala of North Bengal vs Rajinder Chola) that the Pala Kamboja
kings of North Bengal also had very good and cordial relationship with
Chola Kings. So nothing surprising here.
Since ancient times, the Indian Kambojas had
been very much Vedic
Hindus, though many also being staunch Buddhists. But again, the Angkor
Vat factor goes only to explain the 'end result', and NOT the ancient
'origin' of the Kambodian Indianization.
Another intersting point: Many Kambojas, Kushans and Sakas of the
Northern India had adopted Buddhism in large numbers during Asoka as
well as later two/three centuries. From Brahmanical point of view, they
became Mlechchas' and were thus exempt from the Brahmanical social
strictures applying to those crossing the sea. Also Buddhism was a
revolutionary religion based on equality with no caste barriers. The
stigma of earning Mlechcha status from Buddhist Sramans was never an
issue for Buddhist north Indians.
Thus the Kamboja, Saka and Kushan Kasatryas and their soldiers, along
with Brahmanas and Sramanas from North India comfortably went abroad to
Indo-China peninsula unburdened by the above said religious and social
barriers.
==================================
* From: Raveen
Question: "Why did the ancient Khmer Kings choose to
designate their kingdom and land adoption as KAMBUJA OR KAMBOJA after
the 'tribal name' of the Kambuja or Kamboja Aryan people from the
north-west region of ancient India? Why didn't they choose something
like a Dravidian name, if they were Dravidians? Can you give me a
scientific explanation for it? I am very curious to know about it?"
Reply: Have you heard about
Sanskritization? When South East Asia was colonized by Indian merchant
groups followed by Priests and Cheifs, local names were Sanskritized
just like in peninsular India. Many places in South East Asia have
cities, places and entire kingdoms named after places in India. For
example Madura in Indonesia, Ayothya In Thailand, Mount Meru in Cambodia
and the examples are numerous.
The commonly accepted derivation of Kamboja for - Cambodians, is that it
was the Sankritized version of a local name for the Khmer.
Except in the case of Sri Lanka and a couple of cases in the Indies, no
Indian tribe or clan had ever used military force outside India.
The colonization was largely based on culture, and passive acceptance of
it by the locals, it was never "invasive."
==================================
==================================
From: Your-Indian-Friend
A GOOD-BYE POSTING
To all my dear Indian friends Again, I am not a historian at all. I am
your very ordinary Indian brother, putting forth information from
various schools and points of view for the interest of all of you
readers and intellectuals. It is not my intent to forcibly convert to
the views of this school, which is distinct from Tamil and Bengalese
schools of views on Far India.
To my learned friend/brother Raveen with regards: I have never been a
visitor to the Indian Civilization discussion group, etc., you have
mentioned. And believe me, we are meeting here for the first time. But a
real nice meeting indeed!
To my brother/friend Hemant, who is surely also a very learned person, I
extend my heartiest thanks if he found some useful information from my
postings regarding the Khmers and Kambodian Architecture vs Dravidian
Architecture of south India etc.
HERE IS THE LAST INSTALLMENT FROM MY SIDE, FOR ALL OF YOU TO PONDER OVER
AND DO FURTHER STUDIES IF YOU CAN!
TRADITIONAL ORIGIN OF KAMBUJA/KHMER - TERMS ACCORDING TO KAMBODIAN
INSCRIPTIONS, etc.
(i)As per Kang Tai and Chu ying, Chinese missionaries of 3rd century AD
who attended the courts of Funanese Hindu kings (Pelliot "Le Founan" p
303, Indianized States G. Coedes p37).
Kanudynia (Huntieu) + Nagi Soma --------------------- Origin of Kings of
Funan. (line of Solar kings)
(ii) Per Cambodian Dynastic legend preserved in 9th century inscription,
(Louis Finot, Sylvain. Levi)
Svayambhuva Kambu +Mera nymph ----------------- Origin of Kings of
Kambuja
According to Coedes and others scholars, this mythical union of
Svayambhu Kambu and nymph Mera was coined to show the origin of the name
'Khmer". This shows that Kamboja was not Sanskritized from 'Khmer' but
'Khmer' was shown as originated from Kamboj through this interesting
mythical fusion/union of Kambu (Kambuja/Kamboja) and a local name Mera.
Thus the word Kambuj appeared for the first time in record in the 9th
century Cambodian inscriptions. We do not either find any record of name
Khmer in the written record or inscriptions of Kambodia. We know that
the southern Indians are, and have been more dedicated Saivites than the
Northern Indians. The Original Kambodians kings were also followers of
Saivism.
Does this show that the original Brahmans must have come from Southern
India (or both from North and Southern India)?
It seems to be a pure speculation to say that the Brahmans came from
North alone and they, therefore, coined Cambodians local names after
Northern Indian place/country names. It is not sustainable argument to
my opinion. Granted that the Brahmans only came from North India, why
should they choose comparatively a very less important name Kamboja from
North (which was also definitely less Aryans than the Madhyadesha
kingdoms ) leaving very famed old Aryans kingdom names like Kuru,
Panchal, Kosal, Chedi, Vats, Magadh, Avanti, Kling, Gandhar, Madra,
Matasya, Assaka, Anga etc.
Moreover, during this phase of Indian history, Kambojas, including some
other northern and southern tribes were delegated to the status of
Degraded Kasatryas or Mlechchas, because many of them had became
followers of non-brahmanical way of life. Their land 'Kamboja' also
started to be called the land of Mlechchas.
Question arises as to why the North Brahmans should like to name
Cambodia after the name of Mlechcha Kamboja..... the land of the
so-called un-Arya or unbrahmanical Kasatryas?
Buddhist Canons tell us that in the land of
Kambojas, there were
only two classes of people --- Arya and Dasa. A Dasa can become Arya and
vice versa. E.g "Yona kambojesu dveva vanna, Ayyo C'eva Dasoca"
(Majjihma Nakaya II, 149). Thus, in Kamboja country, the Brahman,
Ksatrya and Vaisha people coexisted, not in a classified society like
their neighboring Madhyadeshi Aryans.
Kamboja lands, to all intents and purposes, became a classless set-up
during the 3/2 centuries BC. (Probably the Kambojas picked up some
influence of neighboring (Yona) Greek people during this time and had
adopted aspects of their social order of classless society. This is
further verified from Panini's Ganapatha on Panini's rule II.1.72, which
"Kamboja-mundah-yavana-mundah ... both observing similar
head-dressing)."
The Kambojas were Brahminas, Kasatryas and Vaishas, - all at at the same
time and there was unrestricted movement from one occupation /profession
to another among these Aryan people of NW India.
"Kamboja-Saurashtra Ksatrya shrenyadhyo-varta-shastr-opjivin" (Kautalya
arath shaster 11/1/4).
This above also shows that people of Kambojas
could practice Brahmanism, Kasatryhood and Vaishism at will. A trader
could perform the duties of Kasatrya and Brahman if need be. Thus for
trade and colonization, polticization, and Sanskritization, all
functions could have originally been taken care of by the same trading
peoples in the Mekong Valley.
This attribute and characteristic of the Kambojan society must have
helped them when they first established themselves in the far lands of
SE Indo-china.
Ancient Kamboja Country as a famous Trade Center: There is evidence
preserved in Buddhist Canons and the modern identification of the
ancient land of Kamboja, that show that the land of Kamboja undoubtedly
was a commercial hub .... a trade center. Several trade routes
Kamboja-Kapisi-Pushkravati-Takshila-Sindu-Sauvir-Dravati to the west)
Kamboja-Pushkravati-Sakali-Mathura-Kausambi-Varanasi-Pataliputra-tamralipiti
(to east)
Kamboja-Karakorum-Kinnara-Garwal-Kamrup another route to east)
Kamboja-Kashgar-Yarkandh-Khotan-Sinkiang-Nan.Chao-Tonkin Chiang Kien.
Chinese Envoy to Bactria (127 BC) leaves us evidence of Bamboos and
textiles from SW China - sold in local markets of Afghanistan. On his
enquiry, he learnt that these goods were brought to East India through
Yunnan, Burma -Tamralipti from which they then came all the way to North
India-Afghanistan.
Besides, there was a land trade route from Tamralipiti to Manipur -
Assam - Burma - Nanchao - Tonkin which some traders were also following
in times of need.
Thus there was an extensive trade relationship between India -
Afghanistan land and the South China lands existing very much prior to
Christian era. And we have already seen demonstrated that the ancient
Kambojas people were certainly very good traders and warriors, by
Kautalya and some other Sanskrit sources like MBH. Even in the west
China, the Silk trade between Sinkinag/China and rest of NW India passed
through the Param Kamboja country (Pamir/Badakshan).
We have a couple of documented routes between Kamboj/Balkh and Sinkiang
province of China e.g
Kamboj-Taskant-Aqsu-Qurghan-Sinkiang
Kamboja-Kashgar-Yarkandh-Khotan-Sinkiang
From Kamboj to Dvaravati (Kathiawar), a direct route is also attested by
Ankuravatthu section of the Petavatthu (257-258).
Kambojans were constantly in touch with Dvaravati (Kathiawar) and from
there they regularly sailed to Sri Lanka for trade via the sea. No
doubt, we find the proof of this also from the Sinhalese Rock
inscriptions, five of which mention among the local tribes the ethnic
Kaboja/Kamboja people.
Eminent Sri Lankan and Indian historians connect these Kaboja/Kamboja
people with the Kamboja people of North India - Gandhara Group, the same
(Yona-kamboja-Gandharam...ref: Asoka Edict V, for example).
There are hints contained in the Pali Canons of Sri Lanka (early
centuries AD) that the people of Kambojas from North India were
commercially, culturally and politically in touch with each other.
From Pali Canons, we learn that King of Kamboja's son named Tamalinda
Mahathera was a celebrated Buddhist preacher who preached Theravada in
Sri Lanka (Sasanvamsa (P.T.S) p 40).
Also we learn that a KambojaRaja named Srihmsya came from Kamboja
country (North India) and conquored Ratana Pura City/province of Sri
Lanka. (op Cit p100).
All these pointers shows that Kambojan traders from North India were
also expert seafarers, and were also very familiar with Sri Lankan land
as early as c 200 BC.
From the above we also can conclude that commercial, religious, cultural
and political relationships existed between these two lands in time
phase between 300BC-200AD.
It is not too difficult to conceive that after establishing a commercial
and political presence in Sri lanka, these Kambojan traders then could
have started visiting SE Indochina lands to further develop/expand their
trade.
Some other food for thought for my esteemed and educated friends on this
(1) Kambojan presence in Ayudhya is recognized since the later Vedic
period of ancient Indian history. The Kambojas along with Haiya
Kasatryas had dethroned King Bahu of Ayudhya and usurped Ayudhya ruled
over it for well over 30 years. ( Harivamsa Purana, Vayu Purana and
Vishnu Purana).
(2) The Kambojan presence is also recognized in the Mathura area since
Epic era because according to Mahabharata, the Kambojas are said to have
conquered Mathura and ruled over it for indefinite time (MBH 12/102/5).
The Kamboja presence in Mathura is also recognized in the Mathura Lion
Capital inscriptions of c 1 A.D.
(3) During 200 B.C., the Kambojas from their original Kamboja lands from
North India - Afghanistan started further expanding into the Punjab,
Sindh, Sauvir, Malva and Uttar Pradesh area. Also, one other section
went to Bihar, Bengal and Orissa and permanently settled there. (Vishal
Kambo page 16 by Dr Jya Lal).
(4) Kambojas find mention in Ashoka's Sirnar or Sirinagar in Junagard
Gujrat/Kathiawar, Kalsi in Dehradun and Dhauli in Bhubhneshwar in Orissa
also, besides in Kandhar, Lamghan in East Afghanistan and Shahbazgarhi
in Northwest Frontier Pakistan areas.
Thus, from the above we see that the Kambojas
presence is also
recognized in Gujrat/Kathiawar and Bhubneshwara/Orissa as early as
Ashoka's times - 300 B.C. Even from Braht Samhita of Vrahamihira, we
find footprints of Kambojas somewhere near the Gujrat area.
(5) According to the Brahman Purana (4th century A.D.) the presence of
Kambojas is recognized in Assam and Tamaralipti (Tamaluk) region of
Bengal also. Several historians find the foot prints of Kamboja people
passing in the Tibet area or its borderlands. According to Nepali
traditions, the Kambojadesha name applies to some settlers in Tibet
(Foucher..Iconographie Buddhique' p 134, also ref Charles Eliot, Dr
Ghokhale). V. A. Smith also locates Kambojas in Tibet and in Hindu Kush
mountains.
(6) The Burmese and Tibetean chronicles and lores make mention of a
country called Kampchih or Kampotes located somewhere in-between Assam
and Burma. This, to all probability is the Kamboja settlement as
referred to in the Brahman Purana pointed above.
According to eminent Scholars (Dr P. C. Baghchi, R.C. Majumdar, A.D.
Pusalkar etc.) this Kamboj country was distinct from the
Yona-Kamboja-Gandhara group of North India. Probably, this was a section
of the eastern branch of Pamirian Kambojan people who later moved
towards Assam and had colonized this region which later became known as
another 'Kamboja' country, around 3/4 century AD.
It could be possible to think also that some Kambojas from this land had
also later moved further onwards towards Mekong Valley in the 4/5 c AD
and established themselves in that land.
(6) We also find mention of a certain Kambojaraja in the Chindambram
Inscription where this Kambojaraja is said to have made a precious
present to Rajendra Chola. He was a good friend of Rajendra Chola and is
said to have sought his military help against the non-Kamboj Bengalese
Pala kings.
The information I have put up above shows that there is documentary
proof of a concentrations of Kamboja people in several Eastern Indian
areas since before the start of AD era. (Assam, Tibetean borderlands,
Tamarlipiti in Bengal, and Bhubneshwera in Orissa etc).
Presence of ancient Kambojas is also recognized in Kathiawar/Gujarat and
is also proved by Girinar Inscriptions of Ashoka and some other
historical records.
There has been ancient commercial sea traffic recognized between the
Saurashtra region and Sri Lanka. Further, the presence of Kambojas is
documentarily recognized in Sri Lanka from its inscriptions and Pali
Canons as stated in above. (200BC-200AD). And I also believe, the
Sri-Lankans, like their Tamils brethren, have been in touch with these
Indo-Chinese lands of Far India since before the start of AD era.
I am leaving this information for my friends to ponder over. The only
purpose of my postings on this thread was to provide some information
for you very educated and intellectual readers of this site, from a
third school view point, (which has hitherto been neglected in the
studies of Farther India by Tamils and Bengalese historians for obvious
reasons) ... and thereby set up the process of thinking and
re-evaluation. My respected brother Raveen calls me as belonging to
a class of 'out-of-mainstream' historians. It is very easy to move with
the crowd, but it is real challenging to move on the untrodden paths.
It is a very difficult task and needs guts indeed.
==================================
JY: The above is just a small fraction of the material that is becoming
more available on the India-Kamboja-Khmer connection.
It is obvious that the Kambojas not only were capable of extensive
mobility, they were actively mobile even back into the pre-Christian
era.
South Indian researcher on this subject, K.D. Thirunavukkarasu, has
stated his suspicions that there are yet more sources of documentary
evidence of the Indian (North and South) presence in Southeast Asia that
will confirm the antiquity of that contact. He has expressed concern
about records in some of the Southeast Asian countries, most notably
Thailand, and he has noted that the Thai have subjected ancient texts to
revision and what are called "redactions."
No doubt, as time goes by, more and more of these texts and other forms
of evidence are either destroyed, defaced, or perpetually sequestered.
Those whose objective is to "bleach" the Indic element out of the
history of Southeast Asia, ... especially out of the Khmer history, ...
they will have succeeded in erasing a substantial source of refence on
the heritage and cultural linkage between a people, ... the Khmer, and
their Indian ancestry.
If the "bleachers" succeed in their mission, I will feel sympathy for
the Khmer, because they will have been robbed of their history ... but I
will pity the "bleachers" even more, because their "victory" will not be
one worthy of praise, but it will be one in the same vein as Hitler,
Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, ... the only difference being that in this
case, no blood will be spilled, ... only ink, yet a people will vanish
from the earth.
Jai Kambudesa
Jai Hind
Jim